TOWN MEETING HELD APRIL 8, 1999, AT FORNEY INTERMEDIATE SCHOOL: Sid Holcomb, an unbiased facilitator representing the Forney Chamber of Commerce, welcomed everyone to the third in a series of four town meetings being held to discuss the possibility of an electric co-generating plant being built in Forney. The first meeting was for the purpose of establishing a fair and balanced discussion among the town's people. Cobisa Corporation made a presentation at the second meeting and then answered questions from the audience. At this, the third meeting, representatives from Duke Energy Corporation will make a 30-minute presentation and then open the meeting for questions. At the fourth and last meeting to be held on April 29, the people of Forney will again come together and discuss the specific issues, given the information we have gleaned from the meetings with Cobisa and Duke. Mr. Holcomb then asked the audience to tender their questions in writing. They will be organized by a panel of three new Chamber of Commerce members -- Pete Patel, Dr. Anistasios Balis, and Tony Ruberti -- who were introduced and some biographical information given on each. Mr. Holcomb stated that a report on this meeting will be in the next Forney Messenger. Notes taken by the stenographer, Marsha Sasser, will also be available. Pastor Jerry Griffin gave the opening invocation. Larry Wall, Vice President of the Southern Region, Duke Energy Power Services, was introduced. Mr. Wall thanked the Chamber for inviting Duke and then introduced the people accompanying him: Richard Kuhn, Director; Sandy Taylor, Project Manager, North Texas; Liz Johnson, Public Affairs Group; Bob Shaffeld, Manager, Environmental Engineering Group; and Carey Conner and Lisa LeMaster, Consultants working with Duke. Mr. Wall then proceeded to give an overview of who Duke is, what they want to build, and why all the interest in North Texas -- and Forney, in particular. He wants the meeting to be open and informal, and wants to hear the community's concerns. Duke is in the process of evaluating our area; no decisions have been made. He gave a visual presentation telling Who is Duke: - Merger of Duke and Pan Energy - $26 Billion in assets - Diversified A map showing Duke Energy operations was then shown, as it was when they married up with Pan Energy. Duke is able to handle all aspects of the energy business because of their diversification. They can: Develop; fund; build; operate; supply fuel; and sell electricity. Duke doesn't go to any third party. They have the expertise, knowledge, and resources for this project. They are not going to build the plant and sell it to someone else. Duke has over 100 years' experience, with projects currently operating, currently under construction, and currently under development. Why is Duke interested in North Texas? Last summer in Texas, energy consumption hit an all-time peak; there were a lot of critical power issues. Why the interest in Forney? As Duke develops these projects, the first thing they need is LAND. A map was shown depicting the tract of land Duke has under option. Also, big TRANSMISSION LINES are needed. Forney has that. It can handle the type of projects being proposed in the area. This plant will only burn NATURAL GAS. Lone Star Gas pipelines are close by. Also, a plant this size needs 4-5 million gallons of WATER per day. If you get that from a waste water treatment plant, you have access to a plant in Garland and one in Mesquite. All four of those issues are available in Forney. That is why developers are interested in this area. Duke is proposing a 500 megawatt, gas-powered, combined cycle unit. The facility would be state-of-the-art. Duke has 2600 acres optioned outside Forney. They are going to commit to the City for the entire 2600 acres and are not going to develop any kind of industrial park. Regarding water supply, they intend to use waste water discharge. They will pay the Water Boards for this water. The earliest commercial operation would be mid-summer 2001. If they are going to meet that date, they have to act very quickly. Duke does not have to find financing for this project; they are ready to go. The facility would be 100% Duke Energy funding/ownership. They are committed to Corporate responsibility in the community. An artist's rendering of a proposed facility, with two stacks, was shown. The actual plant would require 20-25 acres. The rest of the acreage would be used as a buffer zone. People were encouraged to stop by Duke's office (130 West Main) on Thursdays from 2-7 p.m. Their toll-free number is 1-800-219-2345, or call any of the representatives personally (stop by after the meeting and get a business card). The Question and Answer period began, and Bob Schaffeld was invited to the stage to help field the questions. Question: Why are you only building a 500 megawatt plant when others want to build a 1500? Can you expand it later? Answer: Duke has chosen to build 500 megawatt plants. Because of our active involvement throughout North America, we don't want too much generation in any one place. A Texas grid was shown. If you put everything in the Dallas area, the odds of getting to other regions of Texas are probably not very good. So we do not have plans to expand this plant. Question: What's the value of your plant and will you be asking for an abatement? Answer: We are very much in the evaluation stage at this time. These plants range from $140-175 million. Several things go into that cost. We are not any where close to having that yet. Regarding tax abatement: We have had no formal discussions with anyone. When you go forward with a project like this, you have to look at the total picture. It is just too early to say. Question: How many MCFs will your plant burn per day? Answer: If we are generating 500 megawatts, 24 hours a day, we would burn 80,000 MCF -- that is, around the clock. It is more likely we will run full out during the peak hours and turn the dial back at night time. Question: Cobisa has indicated they will enclose the turbines to contain the noise pollution. Are you willing to do the same? Answer: Ours does not include the enclosure over the turbine buildings. In essence, each piece of equipment on our project site will already be engineered with noise attenuation. We won't have any problem meeting the noise requirements. Question: Regarding stacks -- any possibility for them to be designed differently (shorter, coiled, etc.)? Answer: We are not married to those dimensions; but there are not a lot of options. I have seen people try them squared or coiled. Anything like that will put back pressure on the system and limit its electricity production. If you slow down the velocity of emissions leaving the stacks, you might end up with higher stacks. We will be in the 150' range, with a 20' diameter. Question: How close will homes be to your property? Answer: We are evaluating several different sites. At the site we are evaluating now, the closest home is 4,000'. Mr. Adams' (and one other home), however, is about 1000' away. Question: Will Duke/Flouer(?) Daniels build this plant? Answer: Our intention is to try to use them, as an affiliate, to work with us. Question: Would any area contractors be used? Answer: We try to use as much local labor as possible; but I don't know that would be for a fact. Question: Would there be unionized labor? Answer: I honestly don't know. I can get back with you in a week or so about that. Question: We have been told by opponents that property values would go down and pollution would be high. Can you confirm this with professional data? Answer: Regarding property values, it is a very subjective issue. We have committed to try to find an independent third-party source. But, in the last two weeks, we have been unable to find anyone. We have found an instance where property values have gone up; we have found an instance where they have gone down. If you look at the tax value that this will have, with the improvements the community will receive (better roads, etc.), it seems likely values would go up. Regarding pollution, you have those concerns with any industrial facility built in the area. We are going to utilize the cleanest fuel we can possibly use. We are facing strict compliance responsibilities from Federal, State, and Local agencies. The TNRCC, on behalf of the EPA, closely regulates and establishes detailed limits that we cannot exceed. Those limits were developed with human health in mind, and they are conservatively based. Anything emitting from this facility will be as clean as it can possibly be and will be protective of health in the area. Question: How many total tons will you emit in a year: Answer: Since we are in the evaluation stage, I cannot give you an exact tonnage. The more facilities built in an area, the TNRCC has to ensure that we are 100% in compliance with the regulations and, as technology improves, we will be required to keep up with those advances. Question: Where is the nearest facility like this proposed one? Answer: This is some of the newest technology on the market. Some of the first units are currently under construction. From Duke's perspective, I could take you to South Texas, but that one is just beginning and would not show you much yet. The one depicted up here on the easel on the stage looks very much like the proposed one. Everyone was invited to look at it more closely, after the meeting. Question: From your standpoint, what negative impacts should we consider? Answer: To be honest, I don't see a lot of negative impacts to this project. And I live in Houston where there are lots of such issues. Jobs are provided to the local community -- about 25 permanent, plus200-300 temporaries during the first couple of years. We are a good corporate citizen; we maintain the plant well, and we retain ownership of it. Duke has a very strong track record. Question: Do communities automatically accept Duke's arrival? Answer: Yes. We have had a good reception at the one in South Texas; one in Maine; and one in Bridgeport, Connecticut. People are usually very receptive because of the benefits to the community. Question: How far does the optioned property go? Answer: We have two maps up here to show you. (The physical location was shown on the maps and everyone was invited to stop by after the meeting.) Question: You show some storage tanks on the property. What chemicals will be stored? Answer: There will be no back-up fuels. The artist's rendering shows some storage tanks. Those are treated water tanks. The others are water treatment chemicals -- one a caustic and one an acid. No chlorine on site. If we have it, it will be in the form of sodium hypochloride(?), like pool tablets. We will have some lube oils. Question: If the people of Forney were to decide they do not want this unit, what procedure would they go through? Answer: That is probably a question to ask your local officials. Duke and the community will come to an agreement that both sides feel good about. Question: How will local taxes and tax rates be affected (city, county, school)? Answer: Tax revenues in all categories will go up. I cannot say how much individual taxes will decrease. I can't tell you what the city, the county, or school district is going to do. Question: What will be done with the waste water to prevent smell and pollution? Answer: This isn't going to smell. It is used for cooling purposes. The discharged water has been through a cooling tower several times. Discharged water can (1) be taken to a waste water treatmentplant; or (2) discharged into the Trinity River, as is currently being done. Question: How will this plant affect the families who live down the road (as far as noise, homes closest to it; wildlife in the area, etc.)? Answer: I think we have already talked about the noise issue. We have a couple of noise meters over here if you want to stop by. We have talked about the visibility and the impact to the area. There will beno impacts to the wildlife in that area. We will do a "threatened and endangered" study of the species inthe area. Question: What will it sound like at 1000' from your plant? Answer: We have a chart that shows the relative sound of this plant as it relates to things such as a heavily traveled highway, a gas lawnmower, etc. At 1000', it is similar to standing 1000' from Highway 80. Question: Regarding the Lake Charles facility -- how old is it; how big is it; is it yours? Answer: There are a lot of plants in Lake Charles. The one on the map is a 40 mw plant, built primarily to supply power for unloading cargo tankers. We have a 40, not a 20, because you have to have backupwhen a ship comes in. Question: Regardless of the noise requirements of the city, will the people across the bottom hear your plant? Answer: It goes back to how far away you are. At 1000', it sounds like standing three football fields from Highway 80. I encourage you to look at this chart. Question: What can the citizens of Forney look forward to when you say you will be a good corporate citizen? Answer: Duke has been in operation over 100 years and adheres to all safety regulations. We will have 25 new jobs in the community. We encourage those people to get involved in the community. We often donate at local levels...to local charities...the library, etc. Question: Due to "Robin Hood" school tax situation, the tax base increases will not benefit FISD. Would you be willing to make monetary donation to FISD? If so, how much? Again, we are in the evaluation stage. I can't tell you what that package will actually look like and how the Robin-Hood law would be affected. Question: How much power can the TU substation carry and can they expand the capacity? Answer: Typically, the limit on how many projects has to do with that transmission pole that comes through. It is a lot harder to upgrade that transmission line. Question: You will install and maintain the lines from the waste water treatment plant? Answer: Again, we are so early in the evaluation process. I don't know. We have several facilities where we pay for it...and some where the city pays for it. Duke is going to absorb the cost of that facility to our plant. Question: Where does the water go after you have used it? Answer: There are two ways, as explained earlier: We send it back to the waste water treatment plant; or we do what is currently done -- discharge it back into the Trinity River. Question: Will there be any sulphur dioxide on site? Answer: There won't be any SO2 on site. Effectively none. I am not dodging that question. The continuous emission monitors will be a very small (less than a canister) of SO2 on hand. Since we are burning natural gas, we will have very little SO2 emissions and very little on site. Question: The solids left after the water has evaporated in the cooling towers, how will it be disposed? Answer: We will use 4-5 million gallons a day. Of that water, as it is cycled through the cooling towers, between 800,000 and one million gallons will actually be discharged. Question: The question is to the suspended solids that are in the waste water. This will leave two tons a week of solids. Answer: If that water is concentrated at a point that we couldn't meet any permit limitations...first of all, it will be designed to run through a water treatment facility prior to discharging. Question: Where are you going to put them? Answer: It is typically just solids...a benign matter. Any of the solids developing in a water treatment process will be managed in accordance with heavily regulated laws. We have no on-site provisions for this. Question: Tax abatement: How may of your locations have been offered tax breaks before you build? Answer: We asked 100%. How many did we receive? I would guess 75-80%, roughly. Yes, I am going to ask. Whether or not the city grants it is totally the city's decision. Question: Which way would emission lines go and how many new towers would be needed? Answer: Our transmission would only go from the plant to the substation. So we might have one or two in the 1000' from our plant to the substation. We will not have all these 138 kv lines cutting throughtown. Question: Do you need any more support towers? Answer: No. We go to TU and submit a interconnect request. They are going to come back and say: We can take it. Or they'll say: We can take it, but it is going to cause us to string a new line over 10miles and will take 3-4 years to do. Then we would probably look at other sites. Question: An EPA study has recently been done in Forney. Our ozone levels are as bad as in downtown Dallas and we only have a paper plant now. How would you be dealing with that? Answer: I will step back and say what I said earlier. We will be bound by the most stringent regulations possible. TNRCC will be looking at us with specific guidelines to follow, so we have to design thisfacility to make sure we are in compliance. We will have to be able to deal with any changes to the regulations. The EPA has not come in and said yet that they are going to extend the non-attainment area for the Dallas region. They have said they are going to continue to monitor it. Question: How long does your planning stage last? When will Duke make a location decision? Answer: The planning stage varies from site to site. Typically, it is 12-18 months. In this particular case, I think Duke will select a site in the next two or three months. Question: How is de-regulation affecting you? Answer: De-regulation is focused on the retailing ability to sell power. That is not the business Duke is in. We are in the wholesale market only. So, de-regulation doesn't have a bearing. Question: Would you ever expand your 500 megawatt plant? Answer: My belief is, no. In Duke Energy's operation, it makes sense to service several different regions. Question: I must disagree with the photo of the pond. You show your stacks no taller than a small tree on the property. Answer: This photo was taken from Lover's Lane...Yandell's property...and we think that what we show here is a very close depiction. Question: What other sites are you considering? Answer: Quite frankly, in some cases, that is confidential information. We are looking at 4-5 sites throughout the North Texas region. We are looking at other sites within the 2600 acres. But you have to understand that, at that North site, we are looking at the advantages of close water, gas lines, etc. Question: Are the areas you are considering -- is it in ETJ's of any other cities? Answer: It is my understanding that there may be some different areas. Some may be Mesquite, Seagoville, Dallas. There are several overlapping ETJs. Question: So if you move it along that 2600 acres, it could not be in Forney's ETJ and we would not getany monetary value, while it still impacts us? Answer: All 2600 acres benefits your school district and the county. Question: Would your plant cause more electric rays to come off the TU lines (EMF's)? Answer: No, not any more than are already there. Question: Have you talked about local tax rates? Answer: If we build, we have a significant impact on your tax base. Question: How may people during and after construction? Answer: During: 200-300 folks involving all sorts of trades. After: Once we're in commercial operation, roughly 25 employees. We try to hire as many as possible locally. The plant manager,however, will not be local. Question: Since noise is an issue, what would you do if people across the bottoms could hear your plant, even though you are within city ordinance codes? Answer: We will meet city codes. At 1000', you will get the same noise as from Highway 80. We believe you will not have a significant sound impact. Comment: Here's a favorable response: We want Duke to come to Forney. Please do not let the vocal naysayers run you off! Response: We appreciate the positive comment. We also realize that people are coming here with concerns, and we want to hear them. Question: Any benefit in terms of electricity costs? Answer: That gets back to the wholesale power issue. It goes to the situation similar to a car that gets 30 miles per gallon while others on the road get only 18 mpg. Older plants start to become uneconomical to operate. This new plant will not lower your electricity 10-15%, but I believe the entire development process will. Question: In 20 years, when your plant technology is outdated, what will happen to this plant? Answer: You have to remember there is 57,000 mw generated in Texas now. 63% of that now is less efficient than my plant. 20 years from now, some of the old plants will be retired; but I believe this plant will still be operating. Question: But if it is not, is the plant "tear-downable"? Will it go back to dirt? Answer: I haven't seen our policy for a plant dismemberment. Duke wouldn't want the liability of a rusted, empty plant. If the plant were to be retired 10 years from now, we would probably be able to salvage the turbines and some other things. We wouldn't let it become an eyesore. It would be as mucha liability to us as an eyesore to you. Question: Looking from City Hall on Main Street, how obvious would the plant be in view? Will it interfere with the homecoming parades? Answer: I don't think you will be able to see the plant at all. Question: Do you have flare tips? Answer: No. Question: Lighting -- Would it look like an airport? Answer: No, you have minimal lighting that is required. (Someone asked about a baseball field...) Answer: But we will talk about placing baseball on the other property if you want to. Question: Would you be willing to build a community center? Answer: It goes back to the total business arrangement that is developed with the community. We have done such things in other communities. It all comes down to the business arrangement between the city and the developer. Comment: Many of us do not want Duke here; so go bother someone else. Response: I appreciate that. That is why we are here is to listen. Question: Would you state how much this facility will cost? Answer: It is approximately between $140M and $175M. Question: During inclement weather, can emissions from the cooling towers...how will they affect safety as far as Highway 80 with the additional moisture in the area, fog, etc. and also to the houses in the area? Answer: I think it will have no impact. To ensure that it doesn't, you have a north wind direction, so any steam from the cooling tower will be carried North. Every one of those concerns will be completely addressed in our design and engineering requirements. TNRCC will make sure there are no hazards. Question: Where is the proposed site? Answer: Forney city limits. Mesquite city limits. Highway 80 area, across from Knox. Question: You will be using waste water for most of your operation. But I am sure you will be using some fresh water also... Answer: We do need to have some ultrapure water on site -- about 150,000 gallons a day, in addition to the large quantity for cooling operations. That could go up to a maximum of 200,000 gallons a day. Mr. Wall then thanked everyone for coming tonight. Sid Holcomb thanked all for the written questions, and said that Duke representatives would be on hand after the meeting for individual discussions.