NOTES TAKEN AT THE MARCH 25TH, 1999 TOWN MEETING HELD AT THE FORNEY MIDDLE SCHOOL: Sid Holcomb, representing the Forney Chamber of Commerce as an unbiased facilitator, opened the meeting at 6:30 p.m. on March 25. John Taylor, President of the Forney Chamber of Commerce, was introduced and thanked everyone for coming. He invited them to write their questions down and pass them to the front, to be answered during the Question and Answer session. Mr. Holcomb stated that the subject of this meeting was: Electrical generating plants. The purpose was: To facilitate discussion within the community regarding electrical generating plants located near our town. The Chamber's position is neutral. The first meeting was held two weeks ago. It was designed to encourage fair and balanced discussion. No power company representative spoke at that meeting, although someone was there observing. Notes were taken by a stenographer; that will be done again tonight. Last week’s Forney Messenger reported on the March 11th meeting, and the questions asked at that meeting were also published, in their entirety. Of this four- part series of meetings, meeting numbers two and three are reserved for two specific power companies -- Cobisa Corporation and Duke Energy. A third company, American National Power, holds options on land in the area. All three hold options on different pieces of land. The fourth meeting will be for the community to come together again. Both companies have requested that the questions tonight be transmitted in writing. Cobisa asked that people include their name, address, and phone number; but that is not mandatory. All questions will be submitted to three Chamber members, who will attempt to sort them into categories. Mr. Holcomb then introduced the three Chamber members, Weldon Bowen, Scott Lawton, and Opal McKinney. All questions will be printed in next week's Forney Messenger and transcribed notes will be available upon request. Mr. Holcomb further stated that we attended the meeting because we are concerned about the future of the community. The panel will categorize the questions and present them in an orderly fashion. He asked everyone to please write the topic of their question at the top of the card; i.e., emissions, noise, tax benefits, location, etc. He reminded everyone that there are still two more meetings. Pastor Jerry Griffin gave the opening invocation. Mr. Holcomb then introduced the Cobisa representatives: Tom Knox, Greg Platt, and Coby Knox, Cobisa's President. Coby Knox stated that Cobisa is located in Houston. He thanked the citizens of Forney for listening to this presentation and the Chamber of Commerce for sponsoring the meetings. He would like to present some facts concerning the proposed plant, such as location, appearance, emissions, noise, type of fuel used, tax impact to the community, as well as a number of other items. He will make representations concerning the facility and its operations. Cobisa is prepared to be bound by those representations to the City. Cobisa wants to be a good corporate neighbor and a good corporate citizen in Forney. He believes their facility can make significant contributions to improve the quality of life here. He said that Greg Platt wants to present the technical aspects, and has some charts and graphs he wants to show. Greg Platt presented next. Cobisa plans to put in a natural gas electrical generating plant. They now have that land under option by the TU substation toward Buffalo Creek and the old city dump. The rendering presented showed what they want to put in: A plant with six gas turbines with heat recovery and two steam turbines, inside a building. Gas will have heat-recovery boilers. The turbines are enclosed in a building, in order to meet the stringent standards the City of Forney has. He showed an artist's rendition from the North side. There will be cooling towers to cool the water that is used to condense the steam. There will be a series of transformers between the building and the TU substation. All of the raw materials, fuel, water comes in by pipes. Maintenance buildings will be closer to Hwy. 80. Equipment and such will be further back. The site sits on about 50 acres of land that Cobisa currently has under option (two separate pieces of property). A plot plan was then shown. Regarding EMISSIONS: One of the hardest things to do in the development of a plant like this is to go to the TNRCC and give them detailed models of what you are going to do. You have to prove to them that what you are wanting to do can't harm anyone. This new kind of plant will have lower emissions than any other facility in Texas. Every plant has to report the emissions they put out annually. Mr. Platt said he had a report on the Lake Ray Hubbard plant and looked at the total emissions and compared it to the Cobisa plant as if both plants ran year round. Both of these burn natural gas. The Cobisa plant is bigger than the Ray Hubbard plant -- it produces more. Given the new technology, the plant Cobisa is proposing is much cleaner than the other plants. It will require the use of Best Available Control Technology (BACT). They have to prove to people that the plant doesn't create pollution. They have to create actual models. They cannot create something that will affect even the most sensitive individuals (i.e., the elderly, the very young, people with respiratory problems, etc). They are not allowed to impact those sensitive individuals. Example: Re nitrous oxide, 9 parts per million. Regarding NOISE: Mr. Platt talked to noise abatement specialists recently and sent them a copy of Forney's regulations and asked how they advised Cobisa meet those regulations. He was told that at 1000' away, the plant does not sound like a highway. A decibel chart was shown and discussed. The decibel level of street traffic is between 85 and 92. Our regulations require, at 125' from property line, to be down at 60 decibels; that is the amount of regular speech. The closest house to the proposed site is 2800' away. Another concern has to do with FUEL. This plant will only burn natural gas. It is the cheapest fuel you can get. It is clean. It is delivered by underground pipelines (he explained that is why the "bottoms" area is so favorable...because it is by some large pipelines, plus it butts right up against the existing TU substation). Mr. Platt said they are not going to burn any alternative fuels. These restrictions will be n federal, as well as state, permits. If they do this, someone is going to go to jail! Not only is it against the law, they will not have the equipment to do this. OUTPUT: All output goes directly to the TU substation. Someone asked about the feasibility of the plant on the other side of Forney. Natural gas and power are both on the West side. A third benefit is cooling water. If you put a plant on the East side, those big power lines that run through the bottom will instead run through town. In June 2000, we plan to start construction, with commercial operation starting in 2002. TAX BENEFITS: Another stream of benefits is from the sale of the water. This is not a co-generation plant -- we will not be selling thermal energy to another plant. The things Cobisa is telling you tonight are things with which they will be in a legal agreement with the City of Forney. They are not going to sell any steam or heat to any industry. They are not going to put in an industrial park. It is harder to see from the freeway. It is in the flood plain. We are going to have to spend lot of money to mitigate the flood plain. Also, this plant is not people intensive. It is not land intensive. But it is VERY capital intensive. Because of that, Cobisa can spend the money to do things like take it out of the flood plain. Another question has been: Will Cobisa be asking for tax abatements? The answer is no. What other products will we be producing? We will be producing electricity. It is just what you see here. Coby Knox then said they would like to take a minute to tell from their perspective the benefits a plant like this can bring to Forney. Capital cost of this plant would be $500M. New tax base would be $656 when the plant is completed. Kaufman County Appraisal District calculated the effects. The first effect is from $.57 to about $.20 in city taxes. That is a 66% reduction in the city tax rate. This is a long-term benefit; it is not a one-shot deal. Also, there would be a 50% increase in tax revenues for the city. Current tax revenues are $900,000. With this facility, it would be $1,300,000. The net effect is, Cobisa believes, over time a general improvement in the quality of life in Forney. The plant will only bring about 36 new jobs. Forney won't have to do things like, for example, add more police officers. These 36 permanent jobs will have a payroll of about $2M a year. This plant will result in lower emissions in the area. Lake Ray Hubbard's pollution rate is about seven times the Cobisa facility. The new facility will contribute to overall lower emissions in the area. Cobisa would like to work with the City Council and the Planning and Zoning Committee to develop a comprehensive package of benefits that would mitigate the impacts of the plant on the community and positively impact the quality of life of the citizens of Forney. Cobisa will be more than happy to let the City acquire a strip of land and plant trees so that the plant is not so visible as the gateway to the city of Forney. They would like to sit down with the Council and the P&Z to work out the most effective way to do this. It was also discussed that, when the plant is operational, the Forney ISD will get a one-time windfall from the state in the amount of about $7-8 million dollars. FISD is manipulated through the State by the Robin-Hood Law. City and county taxes will get a long-term reduction. Greg Platt then stated that Cobisa really wants to hear from the people of Forney what Cobisa can do to be a better neighbor. He urged anyone with questions to give them a call. THE FORMAL PRESENTATION BY COBISA WAS THEN ENDED AND THE QUESTION AND ANSWER TIME BEGAN: Question: Why does this plant look so different from actual plants we have seen? Answer: We have to put all the rotating equipment inside the building, for noise attenuation. We have never enclosed one inside a building -- never had to. But we are willing to do that here. Question: In the picture you've shown us, the billows of smoke are not shown. Answer: In the right conditions off the cooling towers, there is some steam. It is expensive to mitigate. We will work with the City to do that. The stacks shown in these pictures are 150' tall, but the actual size will be set by the TNRCC. Question: What will be the estimated decibels at 1/4 mile? Answer: The sound attenuation specialist told me that, with the closest house at 2800', it would be about 34 decibels. Forty decibels is the noise level in the living room. Thirty-five decibels is the noise level in the library. Question: Do you plan to build and operate the plant by Cobisa? Or do you sell the plant to outside operators, and what would stop them from seeking secondary fuel permits from TNRCC? Answer: It is always possible assets would be sold, but we would enter into a binding agreement with the city of Forney. If any of us defaulted...that is just not something we would do. The Zoning agreement attaches to the PLANT -- not to the OWNERS. If you sell your house to someone else, the new owner of the house still has to abide by the agreements. Question: What kind of lighting would you have at night? Answer: I talked with the FAA people in Fort Worth last week. Where we are located is outside of the landing pattern for the Terrell Airport. You would have a dull red light on the stacks. Plant inside would be lighted. Boilers: Generally there are lights going up the ladders and that sort of thing... It won't be lighted up like a used car lot! Question: Where are your other plants in the United States. May we visit them? Are they open to the public? Answer: One under construction in Albuquerque; one in Texas; one in the Pacific Northwest. Coby Knox commented that they were one of four companies that developed the plant in Paris, Texas, at the Campbell Soup plant. Some facilities are on land located in the industrial areas and are not open to the public. Question: If Forney vetoes this project, will Cobisa approach Mesquite, Sunnyvale, or one of our neighbors to the West and locate the plant there? Answer: Yes, I believe we would. Question: If you enclose the turbines, how do you propose to silence the noise from the cooling towers? Answer: The best way we can muffle the cooling towers to take into consideration things like heat capacity, vapor ___?, quiet motors. The fourth thing is to put a wall around it. Your Zoning doesn't differentiate between the turbine and cooling tower noise in order to get approval -- regardless of where the noise comes from. Question: Where is the specific location of the entrance to the plant? Answer: We are still working on that. We would like to have a dedicated entrance off of US 80 up by the intersection of 80 and Buffalo Creek, through land owned by Keith Bell. We are looking at other methods as well. The TU right of way goes right out to the road. Question: What assurances can you offer us that the plant will remain viable under the competition resulting from deregulation and therefore provide long-term tax benefits? Answer: The deregulation is what's making it viable in the first place. The reason TU has non-efficient, polluting plants is a non-regulated environment. This plant will be built, from day one, to operate in a competitive environment. The need for electricity continues to grow. If we can convince the bankers and financial people to put $500 million in the plant, they will be convinced. Question: You mentioned life expectancy being 30 years. As you appreciate it, does the taxes or value appreciate? When 30 years are over, what happens? Answer: It is my understanding on another plant I did in Sweetwater, Texas, that the tax rates are set year-to-year based on the market value of the plant. So it takes into account any depreciation that happens; but it also takes into account inflation. What will actually happen -- I can't tell you. On the second part of what would happen in 30 years...one of the reasons we are here is because this is a very good spot to build a generating facility. My belief is that any facility here would continue to be modernized. It is also a good spot to put a lot of electricity into the grid. The technology will continue to evolve and change. Question: You mentioned earlier we could expect emissions of 9 ppm. What about the other emissions? Carbon Monoxide, etc? Answer: BACT - 10 ppm. SOX (sulphur dioxide) is really a non- ? when you don't burn oil. Question: What are the specific details of taking the proposed plant out of the flood plain? Answer: It is not really the TNRCC -- you don't go to them. Like we did with the noise, we went to the experts. We also talked with the Kaufman County Emergency Coordinator. The engineers come up with a plan and you take that to FEMA. They won't do that if your plan will impact other folks. The most likely way to make the FEMA folks happy is to improve the flow of water through that area. Question: What about emissions of carbon monoxide? What's going to stop us from being as dirty as Dallas? Answer: First of all, CO2...every time you burn something you get CO2. As much as people need electricity and as long as you are not going to put in a nuclear plant, you have to burn something to make electricity. Our plant is about 40% more efficient than the other plants out there. That means that you burn less to get more power. Therefore, the more plants like this that go in, the CO2 goes down. Regarding ozone problems...it is the same thing. It is a function of power plants like it is with automobiles; as older cars get replaced by newer cars, the amount of pollution goes down. Question: Will the plant continue to operate when Kaufman County becomes a "non-attainment," as it will? Answer: The attainment problem in Dallas is an ozone non-containment problem. VOC's and NOX cause it. What causes the ozone problem in Dallas is not the NOX (nitrogen oxide). Question: You have not mentioned property values. What do you know about power plants lowering them? How do you plan to compensate land owners for the drop in their property values? Answer: The first thing we want to do is to do everything we can to mitigate the impact. The main thing I am concerned about is the visual impact. We are committed to work with the City and the P&Z to lessen those impacts so that property values are not affected. This plant will significantly decrease local taxes and increase revenues. The net effect will be an improvement in the quality of city services. Question: Answer the last part of his question. Answer: Repeat it, please. Question: How do you plan to compensate land owners for the drop in their property values? And the loss of quality of life for those of us who suffer from respiratory disorders? Answer: I think we have talked about improvement. The Ray Hubbard plant pollutes at seven times what this plant would. I don't think the regulatory agencies would let us build it if there is going to be a loss of property values. Question: When the plant is closed, what will happen to that facility? Will it become a ghost town? Answer: We can agree with the City on how to restore the land. Question: Are you aware of a petition signed by over 700 members of the community? How do you reconcile this with your comment that you don't want to be in a city where you are not wanted? Answer: We are very aware of it. If we are not approved, we will go some place else. We have noticed a lot of misinformation. What we want to do tonight is come here and present facts and set the record straight. We want to be judged on the facts. Question: What happens to the gray water through evaporation and fumes? Answer: What evaporates when you boil water is WATER. What we will have to do is in addition to paying the City to provide us with water from Garland or North Texas Municipal Water Supply...after everything boils off...that will be sent back to the sewage plant to be treated. Question: Will there be an odor? Answer: The water that comes out of the sewage plants today, after the Clean Water Act of 1992, in so many words...Garland puts out 24 million gallons a day of gray water that goes into the Trinity River. I get my drinking water from Lake Houston that comes from the Trinity. There is no odor in gray water. If you go to a sewage plant, you can smell an odor. But you are not smelling the stream of water that comes out...you are smelling the settling plant. There is not going to be any discharge into the Trinity River. Question: Who will do the inspections on the plant and how often? Answer: We tell the TNRCC what is going to be coming out of the stack. On each stack, we have to put continuous emission monitoring systems. The stacks are monitored every 15 minutes, and that information has to be sent in to the TNRCC to prove that you are doing what you told them you were going to do. Question: What's the height of the top of the main building? Answer: The main building is about 60 feet tall. The two power lines are 96 feet tall. Question: Is there a limit on TU's station? Will you guys max that out? Answer: I don’t really know. TU is very guarded about that. Question: When do you plan to apply to the city for a re-zoning permit? Answer: Very soon. We would like to sit down with them and walk through what we have proposed to see if there are any changes we need to make. Question: What specific variances to the Forney Comprehensive Zoning Code will be required for the construction of your plant in the city limits? Height? Noise? Storage of flammables?, etc. Answer: Storage for oil. We are not going to store large quantities of oil. Noise...we plan to meet the standards set forth for us. We would like to go to the city and come up with a development agreement where we tell the city exactly what we are and are not willing to do. Question: Would not your 1500 megawatt plant be the largest gas-fired plant built in Texas since 1977 and larger than the total combined capacity of all the plants that Cobisa has ever developed? Answer: Not larger than Cobisa has ever developed. But I want to stress that the newer the plant, the better it is. Question: Has financing for a 1500 megawatt plant been finalized? What assurances can you offer your local supporters that you will actually build a $500M plant? Answer: We will make these representations with the city of Forney and we will be bound by it and will have to build what we say we will. There are a lot of steps...raising $500M...getting permits, etc. Question: What's the cleanest environmental method of developing electricity--wind, hydropower, solar, etc.? Answer: Each one of those technologies has its plusses and minuses when it comes to the environment. Solar is very clean, but it is very expensive; the price of electricity goes up by a factor of 5, and it wouldn't be there at night. And wind...if it is not windy, you don't get power. Nuclear has no emissions, except when you have to change the fuel rods out. They are very clean, until you have to take the fuel rods out. Electricity is very consistent. When you flip a switch, TU has to react. In general, if you look at the need for electricity, the power companies have to follow a curve of usage. You have to have power you can count on. If you look at the fossil-based generating technologies, combined cycle natural gas plants are the cleanest. Q&A SESSION (Continued) Question: What is the role of TU here? Does TU own any interest in it? Answer: TU has no ownership interest in the project now or in the past. We have a draft contract with them, but I doubt TU will be the purveyor of your power. The deregulation bill going through the Texas legislature...that will probably be signed this summer. If that is the case, a lot of providers will be competing for the business. Question: When does Cobisa plan to meet with the City of Forney? Answer: We would like to do it as soon as practical. Question: How will you control the flood water at Buffalo Creek? Answer: We are buying about 40% more land than we actually need. The reason is if you are going to raise the ground up to get out of the flood plain, you have to prove to FEMA. You would probably be in a swell that would parallel Buffalo Creek so that when you have flood waters, you will actually improve the flow along Buffalo Creek into the Trinity. Question: We have had some questions about the property values near the plant. Home owners want to know if you are willing to either put some money in escrow...should their property values go down. Answer: We are willing to work with the City Council and P&Z and that is certainly one of the things we are willing to talk about. We do not want to have a negative impact on the community. Question: What's the largest generating facility Cobisa has built? Answer: We normally work with other companies. The largest is a 668??? megawatt in Virginia, near Richmond. Question: Would you consider building a community center on-site for our youth? Free gratis? Answer: With a plant this size, with this much capital in the plant...we have money to spend to make ourselves a better neighbor. But I don't live here . I can't know what you want. Tonight is the first time I have heard these two suggestions: An escrow fund to help compensate home owners...and providing a community center for local youth. We want your suggestions like this. Please see that you give them to us. Question: Can you guarantee that the TU plant at Lake Ray Hubbard will be closed? Answer: The best guarantee is that we are willing to bet $500M on it! Question: In reference to approaching our Westward neighbors, in the case of veto...please discuss alternative site locations and any re-design of the building and other changes you can foresee. Answer: Our preference is to develop this facility adjacent to the Forney TU substation. We want to do everything we can to make sure we are successful in our efforts. We have not looked at any other locations. We are committed to work with Forney first. If unsuccessful, we will go to a Plan B; but we are not there yet. Question: Any toxic elements, such as ammonia, stored in the plant? Answer: We will have lube oils in the plant; that is classified as hazardous material. The hazardous materials we do have will have to have a Spill Prevention and Control Plan. We will probably have chlorine to chlorinate the water. We are only talking about amounts such as are kept in a pool supply store. As far as ammonia goes, I always go back to the amount of nox that comes out of the plant. There are two ways to control this. One manufacturer has come out with a way to burn it very cleanly. Another has come up with a filter. It would not be anhydrous(?); it would be aqueous(?) Ammonia. I would rather not do that. I cannot tell you right now that I will do that. So I am not sure what the biologicals look like when it comes out of the gray water. Question: The power plant would have a negative economic impact on Forney. What has been the impact of these facilities on other cities? Answer: I know that the folks at Duke put out a flier that answer that question. In the many plants they own, they are not aware of negative socioeconomic impacts. This facility contributes positively to the tax base. Comment: When you say these plants are the cleanest -- that is relative to those existing that are already polluters. Response: You say that the other plants are very polluting. They put out a lot of stuff. You have to look at that in the context of how much air is out there. Getting back to the Lake Ray Hubbard plant. There are homes all around that plant that were built before AND after the plant was built. It is my guess that there is not a significant incidence of any disease out there...people are still moving in... Question: With the emissions from Lake Ray Hubbard and this plant you are planning to build...will they both be working together? How would that affect the people? Answer: I mentioned that you have to get an air permit. It costs about $60,000-$70,000 to get the air permit. You have to have the consultants prepare these DETAILED models. They have to look at all the other emitters, such as the tile manufacturer, etc. All of those things have to be taken into account. Question: Will Cobisa continue to make plans for building their plant if another plant submits for approval? What effect will multiple plants have? Answer: We will continue to seek approval for our plant. The effect of two plants...I really can't speak to that. It would not be appropriate for me to comment. Question: Please give us a detailed plan of your disaster plan. Answer: There are three groups who look over our shoulders: (1) The TNRCC If you store certain hazardous materials on site, you have to come up with a disaster plan. (2) The people who put the money into the plant are going to make very sure it doesn't explode in the first place. (3) The underwriters...the insurance people. The bankers are going to ensure that we get coverage for the entire $500 million. This plan has to be approved by these three groups. I haven't written a plan yet. Question: How tall will the stacks be? Answer: Final height of the stack is about 150.' The best way to compare that is to the big towers that are out there. Those towers are 96' tall. Question: Will you have natural gas storage tanks? Answer: We will get it straight out of the pipeline. Question: Why don't you spend the money to move away from the residential areas? Answer: The site is right next to the substation...near the water and gas sources. Certain things you can't buy. Another thing is that it is close to Dallas. If you build this plant, say, in West Texas, you can't get the power into Dallas. Question: What would be the impact on those homes closest to the plant? Do you realize that you will be liable to the citizens of Forney? Answer: I think we have addressed what we have to prove regarding noise and emission impacts. What is left is visual impacts. I drove up Collins Road by the Lake Ray Hubbard plant before the meeting tonight. There are trees no more than 20' tall right along Collins Road and you can't see the plant from the road. We need to work with the people that are close to the plant to mitigate that impact. Question: Have you ever built a plant this size close to residences? Answer: I built one in Bellingham, Washington, which is 90 miles north of Seattle. It is across a double-line street from homes which are about 200'. The closest home here is 2800'. Comment: (1) 700 signatures are certainly not anywhere near the majority of Forney residents. (2) Decreasing the property taxes will be a real asset. Question: Regarding hazardous materials, please describe in detail the amounts of every hazardous material on site, methods of transporting/disposing each, AND the potential health risks involved in a worst-case haz-mat incident involving each and all of these materials. Answer: I don't know. (1) We have to prove to State regulators, our customers, and our underwriters that we are working in a safe manner. (2) I want to put this in perspective. If we have chlorine, it is going to be equivalent to what you would see a pool supply store. The facts I've found out are: 8-13 trains come through the middle of Forney daily. One out of 5 is full of hazardous materials. One in 8 vehicles that go by on US 80 have hazardous materials. Those MOVING vehicles don't have nearly the kind of safety regulations we are going to be required to have. Question: Will the sound resonate up and down the valley and increase the sound levels? Answer: Good question. In effect, no. Because we need to mitigate the sound to homes on the bluff...you can't just put up a wall. We have to put the thing enclosed in a building to make sure that the sound doesn't go up. Question: What will be the pressure of the waste heat boilers? Answer: Highest: 1400 pounds per square inch. Middle: 600. Low: 150. Question: What potential hazards from those could we have? Answer: The hazard is within the plant ONLY. Question: Do you really believe that the property values won't be affected? How about the land next door? Answer: It is hard for us to project the future and say if there will be a positive effect, a negative effect, or none at all. What is within our control here is to do everything we can to make sure we mitigate any negative effects. I would like to see some kind of arrangement where we go in to those areas where you can see the plant from them and do something to minimize that impact...that view. Regarding property values, that has to do more with the amenities that the city can provide. Does the city have money to develop parks or recreational facilities, fire protection, etc.? Question: What are the TOTAL tons of emissions in a year for your 1500 megawatt plant? Answer: About 3,000. Ray Hubbard...it ran about 11,000. Question: Is that by each stack, or the entire system? Answer: The entire system. Question: You said we could expect emissions of about 9 ppm. What are the current levels of the kinds of pollutants that we can expect? Answer: I don't know. But what I can say is that we have to prove that we do not exceed certain thresholds. Those are set so that the most sensitive individuals are not affected. Question: How much land do you have set aside...that is under option? Answer: All of it. Question: How many acres are in the flood plain? Answer: All of it. Question: Why do you claim to want to be in the city limits and what advantages would that give you? Answer: First of all, if we put a $500 million plant 50' outside the city--the city would find a way to annex us! We would prefer to be annexed to develop a special- use permit with the Zoning Committee. There are certain benefits if we are within the city. We get to utilize the city's rights to the North Texas Water Commission. Question: We live on a ridge above the valley area where the plant will be located. We can see water towers sign, etc., from our area. No amount of even 15 or 20 foot trees is going to block our view of the plant. What, if anything, can you or will you do to keep sight pollution down for us? Answer: Let me answer one part of that. Again, a dime can blot out the universe. Drive along Collins Road and there are 20' tall trees that completely shield the plant. We want to work with the city to shield the view from US 80 and also those residences that are affected. We are committing to set up mechanisms with the city officials to go in there and look at each incidence and to do everything we can to lessen the impact. I don't claim to be a landscaper. We will get the best possible people on these projects. Question: Will your plant contribute to ground-level ozone, acid rain, visibility impairment, particulate pollution, nitrogen deposition in waterways, increase in soil sulfate levels, and global warming? Answer: Nitrate is a good one. We permitted a plant in South New Mexico in the middle of the desert and we had to prove to the Federal government that we were not going to harm the water--there is no water out there! The level of CO2 in the atmosphere is a direct function of how efficiently you are burning fuel or whatever you are doing to produce electricity. Plants like this are much more efficient than the plants they have replaced. With the change in the law that is coming, 58% of the plants in Texas are obsolete. Most of them are like the Ray Hubbard plant. This will mean a general clean-up across the state. Many of these things were grandfathered. Comment: Some of us have better homes...want to take advantage of the view. Why would we want to block the view? Answer: We would be willing NOT to plant trees! Somehow, some way, someone is going to put a very large power plant in the Trinity River bottom. The benefits already in place make it one of the best places in the state. I think someone talked to Mesquite or Sunnyvale this very afternoon about it. Question: For that same general area? Answer: Yes. Again, the advantages of water, substation, and pipeline. Question: I don't live in Forney city limits but I am closer than most. What does it do for us in the county? Answer: County tax rates drop by about 21%. FISD will get the one-time benefit of a $7-8 million windfall. Question: During the drought last summer, our water was rationed. Will your plant affect this? Answer: Unless you get your water from the sewage plant, it probably won't. Question: There are four land options. Where's your 50 acres from Highway 80? Answer: We are south of 80, south of the TU substation. Question: Will Cobisa put money up in escrow that current land owners can access in the future? Please answer that question. Answer: I am not going to answer that yes or no because there is an element to that that has to do with making a deal with specific people. It is something that we are considering very seriously. Anything we do here will be in a contract with the City of Forney. Question: Would Cobisa be willing to pay for an independent study regarding specific health risks for individuals living near the plant? Answer: You have stepped into a quagmire where you get into train wrecks. We prefer to avoid that. We will comply to very stringent standards. Now you are asking if we will agree to submit to a subsidized medical plan. Question: If TNRCC finds you pollute more than they like and you have six months to improve and they will give you more time if you need it...will they shut you down if you don't comply? Answer: Some people may be able to get away with whatever they can; but we are going to be borrowing $500M and any violation of the EPA standards, etc.,.....if our loans are defaulted, someone else will be here. Who? Not me. If you default your loans, the banks immediately take all of the cash you have on hand and they won't give it to you until the problem is fixed! Question: Your tax projections for city and county reductions amount to less than $500 per year on a $100,000 home. Do you think this outweighs the potential loss in property value? For Forney homeowners on the West side of Forney? Answer: I think we have said that we have a strong and serious commitment to ensure there is no loss in property values. We think the property values will go up. Question: Re one-time tax benefit for FISD: Can you explain? Answer: I can try. Our Controller in Houston has talked with Dr. St. Clair. (The Robin-Hood Law was then explained.) Question: How many stories tall would your stacks be? Answer: If you take 10 foot as the normal height for a story, this would be 15 stories tall. Thirteen of the 15 stacks would be 15 stories tall. That is from ground level -- not from the top of the building. Question: About how much are you going to have to build up to get out of the flood plain? Answer: Our consultants have told us that the 100-year flood plan would go to about 4-1/2 feet. We would intend to raise the plant site by about 5' and put another foot or two of berm around it. Question: Next time you present your images, could you put it to scale with the actual topography? This looks like these plants are located out by Terrell or somewhere. Could you put a person in it, or something like that, to bring it more to scale? Answer: They do look like they are located on flat land. We did not ask them to put in trees, berms, etc. Question: What size is the actual building? Answer: The building is the length of about 3-1/2 football fields. Question: Is Cobisa in the business of building plants on speculation, and then selling them? Answer: We started out kind of in a consultant(?) role 12-15 years ago. In the last 4-6 years, we have moved into the role of being our own operators. These plants are very capital-intensive, so we normally bring in partners. Question: Since deregulation has not been out all that long, how are you building these plants and being able to run them? Answer: Electrical deregulation got its start with the purple laws back in the 80's. We evolved to individual power projects. As we have grown, the deregulation move grew and now the whole industry is deregulated. Question: Would you be willing to create a landscape screen on several sides of the building? Answer: Yes. Question: Re co-generation/selling steam -- you said no? Answer: We are not going to design this plant to handle steam and sell to anyone else. Question: What other industries would buy steam from someone who, say, sets up next door to ya'll? Answer: (The Campbell Soup project was explained...how a deal was made with them to use some of their land.) I don't know of any facilities that started out as power plants and had thermal users added later. If you take steam out of the turbine, you are decreasing the amount of electricity that turbine can make. Once that plant is designed, it will not have the capability of selling steam. Industries that can benefit from co-generation: You can sell waste heat. You can sell steam. You can sell cold. All of those things require that you get enough money to offset the loss of efficiency in making electricity. Question: Regarding the fact that you are admitting to burning only natural gas in the life span of 30 years of the plant. If the cost of natural gas were to rise significantly, would that be a factor? Answer: Increase in the price of natural gas would actually favor us. Question: Over the course of 30 years, if we see new plants...are alternate fuel sources possible? Answer: Right now, this is the cutting edge of technology. There has been some concern that we would burn some other fuel. In order to do that, the economics in Texas would have to change. We would have to come back to the City of Forney and get their permission; we would have to go back to all the government agencies. Plus, we would have to spend a lot of money to modify the plant. Sid Holcomb then expressed his appreciation to the group for writing out their questions. The format has been less formal. He closed the meeting by stating that Tom and Coby Knox would be available for one-on-one conversations after the close of the meeting.